“It should be obvious that finance directors should have a financial qualification. The Treasury should enforce this”.

20 February 2008

---

Exchange between Mr Richard Bacon MP, Mr Trevor Woolley (Finance Director, Ministry of Defence), Sir John Bourn KCB (then Comptroller and Auditor General, National Audit Office), Ms Paula Diggle (Treasury Officer of Accounts) and Mr Bill Jeffrey CB (Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Defence) during the Commons public accounts committee hearing on the privatisation of QinetiQ, 3 December 2007:

Q193 Mr Bacon: … Mr Woolley, are you a chartered accountant?

Mr Woolley: I am not.

Q194 Mr Bacon: Are you a qualified financial person of any kind? Do you have any financial qualifications?

Mr Woolley: I do not have financial qualifications.

Q195 Mr Bacon: What is your job?

Mr Woolley: I am the Finance Director of the Ministry of Defence.

Q196 Mr Bacon: Yes, that is what I thought. It is what it says here. Sir John, we have discussed this before when finance directors were called principal finance officers, and I think when I first asked the question some years ago only 23% of principal finance officers had a financial qualification. I think it has gone up significantly in the last little while. The number that sticks in my mind is 60%. Do you have any idea what the current level is?

Sir John Bourn: I think by now it is more than 60, but there are, of course, exceptions, as in the case of Mr Woolley.

Q197 Mr Bacon: Yes, it would appear the MoD is an exception.

Ms Diggle: I believe it is well over 90%.

Q198 Mr Bacon: It is well over 90%, so Mr Woolley is in a very small category?

Ms Diggle: He is.

Q199 Mr Bacon: And yet he is responsible for a £32 billion budget.

Ms Diggle: He is.

Q200 Mr Bacon: Is this not a bit of an omission on the part of the Treasury in its zeal to encourage qualifications by -----

Ms Diggle: We are trying to make it a blanket requirement. We have not quite got there yet.

Q201 Mr Bacon: Does trying to make it a blanket qualification include Mr Woolley?

Ms Diggle: We are trying to get to 100%.

Mr Jeffrey: If I may make a comment, Mr Bacon, Mr Woolley in my view does a very good job as Finance Director.

Q202 Mr Bacon: I was not asking about the quality of the job he does.

Mr Jeffrey: But it is my intention that his successor should be financially qualified, as the policy requires.

Mr Bacon: Good; I am glad to hear it.

8 February 2008
 

---